E&OE TRANSCRIPT
TV INTERVIEW
ABC CAPITAL HILL INTERVIEW
MONDAY, 8 NOVEMBER 2022
SUBJECTS: Respect at Work; Energy Prices; COP27; Climate Change; Campaign finance reform.
JANE NORMAN, HOST: To discuss these issues and more I'm joined in the studio by our Monday political panel. Labor Member for Canberra Alicia Payne and making her Capital Hill debut Liberal Member for Flinders, Zoe McKenzie. Thank you both for joining me today. Look, before we go into some broader issues, I just wanted to ask you on the respect at work bill that has been presented to the house today. You both are sitting in the House of Reps. Alicia Payne, I was doing some background research and didn't realise that this comes from an inquiry that was launched in 2018. The report was released in 2020. And now years later, we're seeing it implemented in full. Are you confident the bill will pass and how important do you think these changes are?
ALICIA PAYNE MP, MEMBER FOR CANBERRA: Well, this is an incredibly important bill. This is a reflection of the Albanese Labor Government's commitment to implement in full the recommendations of the Jenkins Review. And we're both just come actually just rushing up from the chamber just now where some amendments were being moved to water down that, which we of course rejected. And we are really keen to see this implemented in full, because everyone has a right to be in a workplace where they are free from harassment.
NORMAN: And Zoe McKenzie, of course, the former coalition, the former Morrison Government did respond to this report. It wasn't in favor of accepting all 55 recommendations. Where does the Coalition stand now on this piece of legislation?
ZOE MCKENZIE MP, MEMBER FOR FLINDERS: Actually, it was in favor of accepting all the recommendations. There were 55 recommendations, seven of which were left for further consultation before being pursued in a further parliament. So that consultation had taken place up till about February of this year. And then, of course, we moved into election mode and so they remained yet to be legislative, which they now have been. So there were some amendments on the floor of the House today, which largely go to implementation ease. Things like which is the body to investigate some kinds of behavior and so there was a discussion about whether that should be the Fair Work Ombudsman, or indeed that the Human Rights Commission. So I think there's broad support across the parliament for this change. Great piece of work done in the previous government. Great work done, of course, done by Kate Jenkins. So it'll be good to see it pass.
NORMAN: Just some technicalities, you're saying that that's what they're ...
MCKENZIE: Just a disagreement about which body is the right body for investigations. And so otherwise, I think it'll go through and be done today.
NORMAN: All right. Well, that's good news. Now, let's move to one of the big issues dominating debate right now. And that is, of course, power prices. So just speaking to Dan Walton from the Australian Workers' Union. I was just wondering, Zoe McKenzie, in your time back in your electorate of Flinders. Are people talking about power prices? What are your constituents telling you how worried are they?
MCKENZIE: Definitely, cost of living across the board is the number one issue. Number two would be access to workers. So in terms of petrol prices, because 82% of the peninsula has no access to public transport so petrol matters, electricity matters and gas matters. And as we saw in the budget last week, there's a forecast of a 56% increase in electricity prices, and 44% in gas. They have a real bottom line effect, particularly in Flinders, which has one of the oldest populations in the country. And so people are on fixed pensions, or they've planned for their retirement. They just can't see a 50% increase in electricity bills and absorb it without something else missing out.
NORMAN: Well, Alicia Payne, we are expecting the government to put some more details out about a looming market intervention. Dan Walton was saying he anticipates that some sort of price cap will be placed on both gas and coal to help bring down prices. Is that your expectation?
PAYNE: Well, we're very aware of the cost of living pressures on Australians right now. And obviously, the Treasurer and the Minister for Climate Change and Energy have talked about the fact that they are looking at all the options on the table at the moment and will be letting us know, as soon as they know, what will be done in that area. Because it is something really pressing on Australians at the moment. But in the broad, our government is investing in renewable energy to an unprecedented level. And this is what will ultimately bring power prices down. And we are dealing with the uncertainty created under the previous government. Twenty-plus energy policies, and they couldn't land one. So that's the context in which we're coming into this and that broader trajectory into shifting into renewable energy will bring prices down. And we see that in my electorate of Canberra and the ACT, that we actually have lower energy prices than New South Wales, because our local government has made that transition to renewable energy.
NORMAN: So, of course, no one's blaming Labor for the current crisis that we find ourselves in. You've got the war in Ukraine, there are long term issues with the national energy market. But Labor is in power now, so all eyes are on you to try and fix it. Would you expect that there will be some sort of fix, some sort of intervention before Christmas before Parliament rises for the year?
PAYNE: Well, I think the Treasurer and the Minister for Climate Change and Energy have made it pretty clear that they are working on this right now and will let us know, as soon as they have more to say.
NORMAN: All right. Well, the other issue that's been discussed in this context is taxing gas exporters more. Treasurer Jim Chalmers has said a few times now that the community expects more money to be extracted from the petroleum resource rent tax. Do you agree with that observation? Would the Liberal Party look favorably upon hiking taxes on the exporters?
MCKENZIE: I just think we need to tread carefully in these arrangements. Some of those export deals have been set in our free trade agreements, which I used to work on in this building a long time ago. So they're very hard to undo. But equally speaking, we need to look at all the options that are possible. One of the things also in last fortnight's budget was that gas exploration, funding research was taken away. So there were many options on the table for increasing supply that would have obviated the need to go down the path you're describing. But again, they were abolished in the budget. So I don't think at this point anyone should be hedging their bets or closing off options for making sure we've got secure supply, affordable supply and predictable supply. And that would be my main concern.
NORMAN: Obviously, everybody's really worried about this. At the moment, we've heard a few of the Premiers taking potshots at each other. Dan Andrews in Victoria, of course, your home state, for a long time there was a moratorium on onshore gas exploration. That was lifted last year. But how much of responsibility do Premiers have in this case to help bring on extra supply? Obviously, not immediately. It's not gonna help right now. But down the track?
MCKENZIE: No, no, of course, Premiers have a role to play and they do in different states we have different policies in different places. So as I said, we must always look to security and affordability as well as making sure we'd make the responsible decisions for the climate on the way through.
NORMAN: Alright, well speaking of climate change the COP27 conference has kicked off in Egypt. At the COP 26, the predecessor to this, there was a lot of pressure for former Prime Minister Scott Morrison to go along and set Australia's new target. That was done, Labor's updated the target. But why isn't the Prime Minister Anthony Albanese heading along?
PAYNE: Well, we're going to be really well represented by the Minister Chris Bowen, as well as ministers Pat Conroy and Jenny McAllister, and our newly appointed Ambassador for Climate Change, Kristin Tilley. So I think we'll be really well represented there and the Prime Minister is heading off to the G20, as well as to APEC and the East Asia Summit.
NORMAN: Summit season
PAYNE: So he is very busy, and he can't be everywhere at once. But I think if there were any question about the priority that our government is placing on climate action, it stands that one of the first pieces of legislation was to legislate those ambitious targets and also to sign those targets with the UN even before Parliament sat. And we have been really hit the ground running in this area and working really hard on it. So to have our minister over there with these good stories to tell about Australia resetting our position as a global citizen on climate action is a very positive thing. course,
NORMAN: And of there has been, Labor has certainly stamped its authority on these issues since coming to power. But do you think that the new UK Parliament, Prime Minister Rishi Sunak, US President Joe Biden, they're over, well, they're attending the Egypt conference, do they know? Are they aware of what's happened here in federal Parliament? Or do we need the prime minister be over there to be telling them?
PAYNE: Well, Minister Chris Bowen, as well as Pat Conroy and Jenny McAllister, and our ambassador will obviously make that really clear. And as I said, the Prime Minister is really committed to these issues, but he can't be everywhere at once, so.
NORMAN: Zoe McKenzie do you accept that.
MCKENZIE: Look, I'm surprised that he's not there, only because climate change has been a significant part of the Prime Minister's narrative for quite some time. And obviously, there was a lot of attention on the fact that Prime Minister Morrison changed his arrangements in order to be there and in order to make that net zero commitment at last year's COP26. So I do find it surprising. But can I also say what I found more surprising was that in the budget two weeks ago, the National Centre for Coasts and Climate, which was sheduled, to set up the first higher education entity in my electorate in Flinders, which was going to have marine science and focus on climate change, as lived and experienced down at Port Phillip was abolished. So there's a great center for fantastic, world renowned research in this space abolished in the last budget. So frankly, I'm a bit confused by the messaging.
NORMAN: And what was the justification for that?
MCKENZIE: There wasn't one, it was a saving.
NORMAN: Alright, and just on the COP27 issue again, given that Prime Minister Albanese has flagged that he'd like Australia to be hosting a future summit, we understand 2026, years from now. Does the fact that he doesn't attend this one undermine that or would you expect him to attend?
MCKENZIE: No, I don't think so. You know, these these negotiations are very intense as to who gets to host what, when. I'm not sure that it's necessarily whether the Prime Minister turns up or not. As I said before, I think it's more that it's been a significant part of his narrative and now not to turn up seem strange.
NORMAN: Okay, and just finally, before we let you run off to question time. The financial disclosures have come out today and they've really related to our independent MPs. So we don't have the full story of how many dollars people got across all parties. Didn't want to spring it on you, but just so, for our audience to know as well. It's basically shown that it has taken millions of dollars have gone to the so called teal independents to unseat a number of Liberal MPs. Allegra Spender among one of the biggest beneficiaries of Climate200, the fundraising vehicle. I just wanted to know as obviously MPs who have been through an election campaign, does it surprise you the amount of money that has gone towards firstly, Alicia Payne, these Climate200 backed independents.
PAYNE: It doesn't really surprise me because they did run big campaigns. And I think we saw that with Senator David Pocock in the ACT. Labor has talked about donation reform and I think it's a really important area and something certainly my constituents are interested in. And, honestly, I think the less we spend on elections, the better because it's not a productive use of money. But this is the playing field that we're in, I suppose. So it's important that the public know about this. And I just think the less money that's spent on signage and all these sorts of things, which is also not great for the environment, either, the fairer the playing field will be for candidates running in elections.
NORMAN: Yeah, I think a lot of people probably agree with that. I just want to note, there's nothing dodgy about this. It's all just transparency in our electoral laws. But again, have the figures sort of surprised you, I think $1.9 million to run Allegra Spenders campaign in Wentworth in Sydney. Is that the kind of sum that you would have expected for such a big campaign?
MCKENZIE: No, that is probably more than I would have expected. I think the total amount for the Climate200 donations is in the order of about $13 million, someone mentioned to me as I was walking down the corridor here,. That is significant money. And obviously it's really important to be transparent about what that comes with and also it comes with some kind of expectation. Obviously, we have a number of independent MPs, and we're yet to see how what they have as a group and whether they're beholden to any of their funders. I'm not seeing it yet, but we'll wait and see.
NORMAN: All right. Zoe McKenzie and Alicia Payne, thanks for your time today.
