E&OE TRANSCRIPT
RADIO INTERVIEW
ABC CANBERRA DRIVE WITH ANNA VIDOT
TUESDAY, 1 NOVEMBER 2022

SUBJECTS: 2022 Community Survey; deliberative democracy; The Canberra Forum.

ANNA VIDOT: If you live in the federal electorate of Canberra, and you've checked your mailbox recently, you may have found there a letter and a survey form from your local Labor Member, Alicia Payne. In some ways, this is doing what politicians do, asking constituents what they think about things to inform their goings on in Parliament. But this 2022 Canberra Community Survey is also a bit unusual, and in fact, an Australian first, in that it goes beyond just a survey form to creating a forum of community members for a bit of an experiment in deliberative democracy. What exactly does that mean? And what will come of those deliberations? Well, Alicia Payne, the Federal Member for Canberra is here to tell you. Alicia Payne, thanks very much for your time this evening.

ALICIA PAYNE MP, MEMBER FOR CANBERRA: Thanks for having me, Anna.

VIDOT: What is this forum idea? What's this all in aid of?

PAYNE: Right. This deliberative democracy is all about using processes that really give people a deeper engagement with decision making, and give people the chance to hear from different perspectives and from experts to form a consensus on an issue. It's also about trying to reach the people that don't, you may not always hear from. So, as a local member, I do my best to be as available to constituents as I can. I do mobile offices and coffee catch-ups, and people write to me and call the office and things like that. But there are people that don't do that. And this is about trying to engage everyone across the electorate. So, as you said, my survey has been sent to everyone in the electorate. And so please listeners, if you haven't already, and you have that, I'd really love you to respond. But we've also sent out an invitation to 8000 randomly selected households to invite them to be part of the Canberra Forum. Which is going to be an ongoing, deliberative panel. So from the people that responded they would like to be involved, 40 people will be selected, trying to get the best representation we can of the electorate in terms of age, and gender, and geography and even voting intention, if people are provided that. To get a real snapshot across the electorate. And then those people will have a chance to engage over a period of six months in discussions around topics, which they will choose, which will be decided as the topics that matter a lot to Canberrans. And I that will help to guide my representation in the parliament.

VIDOT: Okay, so this won't be you like: this bill has come up in Parliament, what do you think about this? This will be what do you think is important, is more the direction of things?

PAYNE: Yes. So the group, once selected, will actually choose the topics, and I will be involved in that. So the survey that we've put out is largely around just, you know, what are the issues that matter most to people and it's quite broad. So when we choose the topics, they will be specific enough that recommendations can be made by the group. And I have committed that I will publish those recommendations in full, unchanged on my website. That I will talk about these in Parliament and in our Labor Caucus, which is obviously where we make our party policy decisions. And that I will write to the relevant ministers about it. So those topics will be decided by the group. And there'll be one or two topics that they will choose. And I might choose a third topic, depending on the scope of the other two.

VIDOT: So this, as I understand that the federal level of politics in Australia is a first. This deliberative democracy model is something we've seen it a territory level once or twice in the ACT and places overseas. What expertise have you tried to draw from to make this a success?

PAYNE: Yeah, so deliberative democracy, obviously, is not, I'm not claiming to be the first politician that's done that and even I have done some smaller scale things in the past with it in this electorate. But this, I'm working with a fantastic group called DemocracyCo, who are experts in running these processes for government and for business. And they have actually volunteered their time to work with me to develop this model. And they will be using this experience to put a handbook together and hoping that other MPs will use that to run it themselves. So they are professional facilitators of the group, and they will bring in experts depending on what the topics are. So all of that is sort of arm's length from me, the selection of the people that will be involved. They have helped with the survey design, of the survey that sent to the people who were invited as well. And so really, I'm just thrilled to have their expertise in making this a possibility. And I also want to acknowledge there's a group here in Canberra of citizens who are passionate about these issues called the Canberra Alliance for Participatory Democracy, or CAPAD, and they put me in touch with DemocracyCo to make this happen. And they're also going to be having an evaluation role in the process. So that will also be open to some observers if people are interested. And hoping the media will be interested too.

VIDOT: Speaking of evaluation, what will indicate to you that this has been a success in six months time?

PAYNE: Yeah, well, I really hope that, as I say, I don't know what the topics are. And I'm hoping that they will be topics that will provide something new that we're not already doing, or that will help to really get an opinion from the community that I don't already know about, if that makes make sense. But also, the process itself, from everyone that I've talked to that's been involved in these, just seeing people form consensus around an issue. And when people have the opportunity to really deliberate on an issue, hear from experts, hear from people with different perspectives, it's really a fantastic experience. Well as one person described it to me, it makes you feel really pleased to be a human, to see people come together around an issue. And the person that said that, to me was Art O'Leary, who is the Irish, head of their electoral commission, and he recently visited Australia to hear about our electoral commission, because it is actually worldwide best practice. But he has run some incredible processes in Ireland on really contentious issues, such as abortion, and seeing people come together and perhaps change their views when they when they work with others and discuss these things in depth. So it can be a really exciting process.

VIDOT: You're listening to Alicia Payne, the Member for Canberra, talking about this deliberative democracy endeavor, I guess. You may know a little bit about this, you may have seen this in your mailbox. This is what it's about. If you are in the electorate of Canberra. Alicia Payne, an idealist might say this is great, this is exactly what every MP should be doing, to hear what the community really cares about and the extent to which they care about it. A cynic might point out that you're still just one MP in a caucus of many, who might be turfed from your party, if you were to cross the floor on an issue, no matter how passionately your community feels about it. What's the point? What will these democratic deliberations change?

PAYNE: Yeah, well, I do want to acknowledge too, and as I said before, that most politicians are already doing the work to listen to people. But this is about bringing some science into the way that we do that to really capture views that we may not otherwise hear. And also give people that chance to deliberate on the issue. So it's building on what I'm already doing, and what others are already doing. In terms of, yes, I am part of the Labor Party and we have actually a really consultative process within our party at the grassroots level. And also in our federal caucus, where we have a discussion as we form that party line. Every issue that we consider goes through that process and that's an important part of being a party of government in that we make a commitment to deliver on certain things. We have a voice within that caucus to push the things that are important to our electorate. And so I will be doing that. And part of my commitment to this process is that I will raise these issues on behalf of the electorate in the parliament and in the caucus and that it will guide my representation of my electorate,

VIDOT: Australia. I mean, you talk about the party process, Australia nationally has certainly seen a big drift away from the major parties just in terms of membership over many, many decades now. I wonder, do you see something like this as a replacement or at least a mitigation to that to keep major parties with declining membership still in touch with the grassroots in the community?

PAYNE: Well, I would say that here in the ACT, our ACT Labor membership is alive and well. And we are, there has been a renewed interest in grassroots politics and representation perhaps. But what I want to really let people know is we are doing that, we are a group that meets every month to talk about policies. I've been a grassroots member of the Labor Party since 2007. And we meet in various different sub branches, our policy committees and talk about policy every month. And then it's those people that come together to help us with our campaigns and volunteer and this is really the the engine that helps our party to win elections. And so we really are engaged with the community. That's the other side of it. So I certainly don't see this as a replacement. But we certainly have seen a bit of a disengagement, perhaps with politics, and obviously, in Australia, politics has a pretty bad name. And I do see this as something that I hope will engage people more broadly and see that their politicians really are listening and give people a chance to understand as well, some of the ways in which I can advocate for them through those processes. So I think it's something, from what I know of deliberative processes, I think that they are something really useful to the political process and, and something I would like to see us doing more of.

VIDOT: Very interesting to see what the outcomes are certainly. Alicia Payne, thanks very much for your time this evening.

PAYNE: Thanks very much.

VIDOT: Thank you. Alicia Payne, she's the Federal Labor Member for Canberra. You may have seen a survey, a letter from her in your mailbox, if you're in that electorate. Barry is not convinced he said, he says it's propaganda. He saw it, he recycled it. But we'll see. We'll see. We'll see what might happen. And see if other MPs decide it might be a good idea. Who knows?