E&OE TRANSCRIPT
RADIO INTERVIEW
ABC CANBERRA MORNINGS WITH ADAM SHIRLEY
MONDAY, 8 NOVEMBER 2022

SUBJECTS: Industrial relations reform; territory rights.

ADAM SHIRLEY, HOST: Alicia Payne is the federal Member for Canberra, obviously a member of the government and is with us now. Ms Payne, really appreciate your time.

ALICIA PAYNE MP, MEMBER FOR CANBERRA: Good morning, Adam.

SHIRLEY: It sounds like, from my naive perspective, this is a complex and a series of big changes. Is it fair to say that the government is pushing independents like David Pocock too fast, too hard, in getting it right?

PAYNE: Look, this is a really important piece of legislation and it's one of the things - Australians all around the country are hurting, because of really steep cost of living increases at the moment. And getting wages moving, again, is something we are really committed to, and it is urgent, it is something we want to get happening as soon as we can. And we have been working with the crossbench, including, of course, Senator Pocock, as we should. And this is the process of the parliament that we are going through those processes to give people time to get across the detail of the legislation. But it is, I do think this is something that Australians would want to see passed this year. It was a key commitment we took to the election, and we need to get wages going and this is part of that.

SHIRLEY: But how much difference would it make, say if you gave some of the key Senators, a bit of grace, a bit more time to make sure they're happy with this and then have it all done maybe early next year? Because there is a risk you'll be seen to be bullocking it through and in fact, forcing the hand of people in the Senate and then forcing the hand of others in the community.

PAYNE: Well,  I don't feel that that's accurate, because I know that Tony Burke and the relevant ministers have been engaging with Senator Pocock and the other crossbench members. And absolutely as we should like, this is part of being a good government and we are trying to do things differently. We are doing things differently in Parliament since the election.

SHIRLEY: But they're saying it's too fast. I'm going to paraphrase here, ACT Senator, Senator David Pocock says, 'This is too fast'. That doesn't sound like he feels it's a good process.

PAYNE: Okay, well, Parliament can move pretty quickly, we are a new government with an ambitious agenda. There are many things that we have already got through and wanting to get through as soon as we can. And I just think that we are engaging with him and giving people the time that they need. But it is a really important piece of legislation. So it's about getting that balance. So we're thinking about workers out there whose wages have not gone up for too long. This is a bill that focuses on the lowest paid, the design of these reforms are for the lowest paid workers and female dominated industries. And it's a really important bill so sometimes these things do need to move quickly. But I trust that it is getting the scrutiny it deserves, and people are getting their time that they need.

SHIRLEY: And there has been discussion and actually a foreshadowment I think that splitting this overall bill could happen, amongst others. I think Tony Burke was suggesting that option is open. Would that be a decent solution here? That some of the less contentious stuff that everyone agrees on, can be voted on and put through before Christmas, and then some of the other elements like multi-employer bargaining, can have more time spent and there may be looked at in more detail after Christmas?

PAYNE: Well, that is a decision I suppose that is being worked through and that some people have suggested could be a solution. But as I said, I think this bill is really important. And when things are really important, people need to get across things very quickly sometimes and that's a balance that we want to strike. We are working with the crossbench but this is this is really urgent.

SHIRLEY: You're hearing from Alicia Payne, federal Member for Canberra and member of the government obviously. Adam Shirley with you on ABC Radio Canberra. One of the key elements and you've personally been passionate about trying to get this voted on and through is territory rights, Alicia Payne. How committed is the government to ensuring that vote happens in the Senate and whether it is voted for or against, that it is voted on before Christmas?

PAYNE: Yes, so this is something that the key leaders in the Senate, Senator Katy Gallagher, of course, Senator Penny Wong has, you know, they are really committed to getting this done this year. In amongst all these other priorities, as I've mentioned, but it is something we are committed to in this year, which is really great news for people in the ACT and Northern Territory who've waited far too long to have equal democratic rights as everyone else

SHIRLEY: You've spoken on the floor of the House of Reps about why you think this is a really necessary change and your support for territory rights on issues like voluntary assisted dying. So do you understand what the timetable is for that vote in the Senate? Because I'm guessing you would be speaking with Senator Gallagher about that sort of thing?

PAYNE: Yes. Well, actually, as you know, I co-sponsored this bill with Luke Gosling. So it's actually my private member's bill that it's about, and as I said, they're working through that at the moment. But my understanding is, is that the commitment to getting that done this year is a strong one. And there's a lot to get through, but we know how important this is to our communities. And Katy Gallagher, who's key in making those decisions about the business of the Senate, has been an advocate for territory rights for many, many years. So I'm confident that that will happen.

SHIRLEY: Have you been given an assurance that will happen?

PAYNE: Yes, it's among the priorities that we are wanting to get through this year. The key priorities on the list of things that we want done this year, it's one of the key ones. Which is really, really encouraging given this is something that the previous government wouldn't even allow a debate on. It's a private member's bill and it's given that priority says a lot about where this sits in the priorities of the Albanese Labor Government.

SHIRLEY: There are some reports that there are those within Parliament, lobbyists even as well, trying to sway the vote before it happens. Maybe to go against territory rights being enshrined. Is that actually happening? And in that light, do you think time is important about ie get it done as soon as possible?

PAYNE: Well, this is obviously an issue that people have some strongly held views on, and that was always going to attract a campaign from either side. And I know that, on our side, myself and my territory, colleagues from the ACT and the Northern Territory have been having as many conversations as we can. There've been some really fantastic speeches in the Senate, including people who have changed their vote, like Jane Hume -

SHIRLEY: Yep

PAYNE: - who didn't support it, and now does. And I think those discussions are happening, but I feel that we're ready for this vote and it would be ideally good to have it as soon as possible.

SHIRLEY: Are there some either within political parties or outside of the Parliament trying to sway it, though? And trying to convince senators to go against it?

PAYNE: Well, yes, there would be. I think it was particularly around the time that it was introduced, there were letters from various groups and to all MPs and Senators, and I imagine that's now intensifying in the Senate, rather than House of Reps.

SHIRLEY: Sure.

PAYNE: But as I said, we are quietly confident of the results. It was always going to be closer in the Senate, than the House of Reps where we had a really strong vote for territory rights. But as I say, the people that I've been talking to, I am quietly confident that it will get through.

SHIRLEY: All right. We'll see in the time soon to unfold. Alicia Payne, I do appreciate your time. Thank you for that.

PAYNE: Thank you, Adam. Have a good day.

SHIRLEY: That's the federal MP for Canberra, Alicia Payne, who, as you heard or already knew, co-sponsored the bill introduced to Parliament for territory rights. And it's now sitting at the Senate. And she's just said she's been given an assurance that it will be voted on before the years out in the Senate. So we could see that come into law before Christmas.