E&OE TRANSCRIPT
RADIO INTERVIEW
2CC STEPHEN CENATIEMPO BREAKFAST SHOW 
TUESDAY, 3 AUGUST 2021 

SUBJECTS: Political Panel with Zed Seselja; Vaccine Payments; Vaccine Rollout and Misinformation; Freedom of Speech on University Campuses; Deliberative Democracy Town Hall.

STEPHEN CENATIEMPO, HOST: Joining us as they do on a Tuesday, well, not every Tuesday these days every now and then because they're both so busy is our local federal political panel. Representing the Labor Party, the Labor Member for Canberra, Alicia Payne, Alicia good morning. 

ALICIA PAYNE, MEMBER FOR CANBERRA: Good morning, Stephen.

CENATIEMPO: And from the Government is the ACT Liberal Senator and Minister for International Development and the Pacific Zed Seselja. Good morning Zed.

ZED SESELJA, LIBERAL SENATOR FOR THE ACT: Morning Stephen, morning Alicia.

PAYNE: Morning Zed.

CENATIEMPO: Alicia, $300 to get vaccinated, we should be smarter than that, shouldn't we?

PAYNE: Well, we just want to do everything that we can to encourage Australians to get vaccinated. We've seen in other countries around the world lotteries and similar incentives to this have worked really well. We are behind the eight ball in Australia, you know, we're behind the rest of the world and it's time to pull out all the stops. So this will encourage people who, you know may have been, may have not realised how important this was, to go out and do it.

CENATIEMPO: Zed are we behind the rest of the world though we're nearly at 20% fully vaccinated or 19% was the last figure I read. When you look at countries around the world, the figures seem to be all over the place, whether it's 60% half vaccinated or 70% fully vaccinated, or they move on a different, seem to move on a different day, the vaccine rollout is ramping up. Aren't the kind of incentives we need, let us get back to life as normal if we've had a vaccine?

SESELJA: Yeah, I think that's right, Stephen. And if you look at I mean, obviously, the countries who had the earliest quickest rollout were countries who had people dying in the tens of thousands and had emergency approvals and all those sort of things. So the rollout is ramping up, it's over, well over a million a week now. I think in August, we'll hit probably at least 5 million Australians will be vaccinated just in the month of August. And so it is moving and ramping up very quickly and it will continue to do so in the next few months. I'm not convinced that the cash payments would be the way to incentivize people. I mean, I think there's I think most Australians will want to go and get the jab a substantial portion and we're obviously encouraging them to do that as soon as possible. There will be a portion who are going to be harder, they're going to be those who are very sceptical of vaccines or who need a bit of convincing, I'm not sure that the $300 will get someone over the line if they have concerns. I think it's better that we explain how the efficacy of them, the safety of the vaccines, how they've been through rigorous processes. And as you say, that as we get to those thresholds of 60 and 70% plus, that we're going to see things return to normal. And that's what we all want to see. Obviously, Sydney in particular going through a challenging time and that, of course, has impact on the rest of the country. So going and getting vaccinated, there are plenty of opportunities to do it. I encourage people to do it. I've done it myself. I think most Australians will respond to that call. But I'm not convinced that giving them a little bit of cash would be would get those over the line who are sceptical.

CENATIEMPO: Alicia this 70, or do you believe there is a pathway to reopening Australia now because I mean, the Prime Minister says we need to go about it and get to about 70. But there are still state and territory leaders sending different messages to that. What, how do we go about enforcing this so that we do get some sort of national, I guess, coalition on when we say we're going to reopen and see the end of these lockdowns?

PAYNE: Well, obviously the pathway to seeing the end of lockdowns is having a substantial proportion of the community vaccinated. And this has been the Federal Government's failure that it is taking so long. So I'm a little bit sceptical that we will get to, you know, 70%, 80% by early next year, but we need to see the Federal Government pulling out all the stops in this regard and encouraging people and ensuring that supply is there, which has been the problem all along.

CENATIEMPO: Well as an opposition, though, wouldn't it help if you as a federal member of the opposition came out and said the people like Jeanette Young, enough of this actively demonising the vaccine that we've got the most of and discouraging people from getting it?

PAYNE: I don't think that any federal politicians have been saying anything other than that people should follow the health advice from you know, from the Labor Party, that's been our stance all along, that people should go and get vaccinated. And if they're unsure that they should talk to their GP.

CENATIEMPO: But then when the Prime Minister came out and said that you told him, you told everybody he was confusing everyone.

PAYNE: Well, it was confusing, because (interrupted)

CENATIEMPO: What, to go and talk to your GP first?

PAYNE: No no, it went beyond the health advice at the time when he said that people of certain ages should go and get certain vaccinations. What, (Interrupted)

CENATIEMPO: No hang on, Alicia, what he said was go and talk to your GP first and see if your GP thinks you should get your vaccination.

PAYNE: Well, at the time the health advice was that people under 40 shouldn't get AstraZeneca and that's when he said it. At the moment the health advice remains that for people, except in Greater Western Sydney, and now Brisbane perhaps. But this is where it gets dangerous. I don't think as a politician, I should be talking here about health advice, I think, you know, people should be following the health advice or going to talk to their GP if they're unsure. That's what we should all be doing.

CENATIEMPO: Zed getting back to the point, though, when we have one of the Chief Health Officers in Australia, one of the state Chief Health Officers, actively discouraging people from getting vaccinated, surely it's time for our political leaders to stand up and show some leadership and call that out?

SESELJA: Well, look, I certainly have and I think that commentary has been unhelpful, and I've said that a number of times. And, you know, I think certainly, the PM has made it very clear. And I think it was good advice, I think a lot of Australians have followed that advice to go and consult their doctor to consider for themselves that, yes, AstraZeneca, there's been some complications around it but it is a very, very safe vaccine, get that get the advice. And it's been used around the world and people point to around the world in terms of the UK and the like. Well, what has the UK used? They've used a hell of a lot of AstraZeneca. It has been a miraculous vaccine, which is, you know, changed the nature of how we deal with this virus. And so, yes, it is important that facts are put on the table, it's important that we don't see sometimes that kind of commentary and I think Queensland may be lagging now in terms of the rollout. I don't think that's helpful. I want to see Queensland vaccinated like the rest of the country, because it's really important for all of us.

CENATIEMPO: Alright I want to change tack here for a moment, because I think most people are starting to get sick of talking about Coronavirus. You've called on university leaders to protect freedom of speech on campuses. This is after the ANU Student Association allegedly banned the Australian Defence Force from having a stall at a market stall on there day at the university. I mean, this is extraordinary.

SESELJA: Yeah, I mean, this is cancel culture at a whole new level. And I'll be writing to Brian Schmidt and just asking him how they're going to deal with some of these issues. So we're all well aware that, you know, people of a conservative bent have long felt that they can't have their voices heard on campus, they do get excluded from these groups. I've heard of pro-life groups being excluded. But the ADF. You know, the people who go and defend our nation, defend the freedom of speech, defend the ability for people to go to university and do all of these things, for them to be excluded from market day which they were. I was there, and it was reported to me and it was reported in the student newspaper, is absolutely disgraceful. It really is. And this is public resources, the public backs universities with significant funding. There's compulsory fees that every student, whatever their political leanings, has to pay their fees. And whether it's the ADF, which I think is by far the most extreme example, or whether it's other groups, I don't think there should be this kind of censorious culture, and certainly not towards our men and women in uniform, who are putting themselves on the line so that we can have these freedoms, that we can have debates at universities. So the Socialist Alternative can have their stall, which they did. I may not like the Socialist Alternative, but I accept they've got a right to have freedom of speech, and certainly our ADF should have a presence at appropriate places like Market Day.

CENATIEMPO: Alicia, where do we draw the line on this kind of stuff?

PAYNE: Well, I absolutely think the ADF should be able to have a stall on Market Day and other groups, you know, with all a range of political views should be able to have free speech on campus. I don't think that we're sure that the ANU Student Union did actually say that they couldn't, they said that they didn't, that the ADF didn't apply. But that aside, yes, they should be able to be on campus. But I do think that Alan Tudge, the Education Minister, should actually be focusing more on things like the 17,000 job losses in Australian universities, the result of the Government's failure to support them through the pandemic, or the fact that young people are now you know, due to the Government's policies paying more for certain types of degrees and that we're coming, you know, we're hopefully coming out of a global pandemic and what are young people thinking about their futures. I think, you know, in terms of education, the Government should really be getting behind that at the moment.

CENATIEMPO: You should be ripping up that new curriculum review too. Alicia, you're holding a deliberative townhall next week to try and engage young Canberrans with politics. Tell us how that's gonna work.

PAYNE: Yeah, thanks. So this is a, it's a Connecting to Parliament event in connection with the University of Canberra Centre for Deliberative Democracy and Global Governance and the University of Ohio in America. And it's a deliberative Town Hall, so it's a specially facilitated discussion to really draw out people's views so that I, in this case, can represent them better in the Parliament. And the issue is around the representation of young people and how we can give them a better voice in Parliament. So we're encouraging all Canberrans to register. There's an in person Town Hall on Saturday, the 14th and then an online Town Hall alternative, you could go to one or the other, on the Sunday. We're encouraging everyone, but particularly people aged 18 to 29 on this issue about youth.

CENATIEMPO: Zed we should have more of this kind of thing, shouldn't we?

SESELJA: Yeah look, well done. I think it's great when we see the ability to engage youth. I had the opportunity to speak last week with Lake Tuggernong Year 12 students. And we had a great forum. A lot of hard questions they threw at me, but some really intelligent questions. And one of the things we discussed was just the importance of us being able to dialogue, whether we agree with each other, disagree with each other. But to be able to respectfully disagree. And I think that's one of the things that I see from many of our young people, which is really positive. And I think the more we engage them in good debate in the political process, in civic life, I think that's a really positive thing to do.

CENATIEMPO: Well said, Alicia, good to talk to you. Zed thanks for your time.

SESELJA: Thanks very much guys.

PAYNE: Thanks Stephen, thanks Zed.

CENATIEMPO: Alicia Payne, Labor Member for Canberra and Zed Seselja, ACT Liberal Senator.

ENDS
 
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